Legal Hemp On The Ropes: Senate Effort Running Into Stiff Law Enforcement Opposition
….
This is an open thread.
- DrugWarRant.com, the longest running single-issue blog devoted to drug policy
Join us on Pete's couch.
Send comments, tips,
and suggestions to: Recent Comments
on Anti-marijuana quack Dave Weldon to take over CDC: “Insights are achieved in treating behavioral disorders by focusing on the tetrapartite synapse of the brain: 17-Dec-2024 — …neuroscientist Dr.…” Dec 22, 12:56
on Anti-marijuana quack Dave Weldon to take over CDC: “I strongly disagree with Servetus’ statement about Dave Weldon. His views on marijuana are not only outdated but also harmful…” Dec 17, 07:40
on Anti-marijuana quack Dave Weldon to take over CDC: “If you thought Bondi and Weldon are bad, I know plenty of Louisiana politicians in both parties who are even…” Dec 6, 11:26
“law enforcement is too stupid to know the difference”
To be fair, that’s almost certainly true, but we can’t very well make that the standard, now can we?
And if we’re really supposed to take that argument seriously and cops really are too stupid to know the difference between hemp and marijuana, why is that an argument for criminalizing the former as opposed to an argument for legalizing the latter. “Well, we’ve got this plant with all these incredible and valuable industrial uses. Unfortunately, the appearance of this plant is ‘too similar’ to this OTHER plant that has all these incredible and valuable medicinal, spiritual, and recreational uses. This other plant is still illegal under federal law (thanks to a decades-old propaganda campaign fueled by racism, fear, ignorance, and greed). But this other plant is also now legal for medicinal and/or personal use at the state level in an increasing number of jurisdictions. In addition, a rapidly-growing majority of Americans now believe that this other plant should be legal, including a decisive majority of those under 65.” Gosh, what to do?
“…other plant….”
Hemp is the same species as “marijuana” – cannabis sativa. Different varieties. Different strains. Of the same sacred plant.
What kind of person wants a sacred plant to be illegal?
These are the people who hate America.
Yeah! Why do they hate freedom and America!? Damn commies!
I would nearly guarantee that this is the strategy emanating from ONDCP/DEA,,it is one of their last legs to stand on because it is simple for state agriculture agents to go to a field and get random samples long before the plants mature to assure that the field is hemp,,and a lot of hemp crops are harvested after just 4 months of growth for making the finer papers and textiles,,so they would never get a bud for us to be interested in.
This is so weak it is laughable,especially since over 1/2 of American voters support legalization of the drug the cops fear will be grown.
I am sure the Hemp orgs are mapping a barrage bombing of this bull.
They want cops to be dumb, blunt force instruments.
Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops
“Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took the exam in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125. But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.”
http://tinyurl.com/m4j5go6
This is a double edged sword for the police,,they are too stupid to learn anything new but they want funding to buy the latest greatest hi-tech toy on the market,,cause they need it.
I see the problem being with our legislators who have no recent precedent on hemp farming: they are trying to figure out what effect any change in that arena might have as far as giving advantage to their constituents or their enemies. In other words, they’re afraid to make any change or step into the ‘unknown’ of any issue for fear they may be helping their political adversaries.
I’m thinking everything they do is filtered by this screen of support/damage for the ‘home’ team versus what is the right thing to do, what makes sense, or any other reason that has to do with policy, (especially science)! Appearances are more important than substance. They’re handcuffed by this highly funded school yard game of perceived advantage/disadvantage versus examining the merits of any issue on its own. It’s a club whose mission statement is about maintaining the status quo. They’re all paranoid about making a ‘mistake,’ (as well they should be), but for the wrong reasons.
Probably the real reason that police higher-ups don’t want to hire smart cops is due to intellectual intimidation; the chiefs aren’t smart, and they know it. When a cop is smarter than the chief, the chief is intimidated and feels vulnerable. Remember, it’s cops hiring cops; they don’t hire out of their own, personal comfort zone. Even if the candidate looks like the ultimate best cop, if the chief is intimidated he won’t hire that candidate.
Another reason is that a smarter cop might not be so willing to violate the unalienable rights of people as the less intelligent ones and might even question some department “common procedures” and illegal activities that are committed by so many cops and whole departments every damn day.
At least the police are coming clean and admitting to being idiots. That explains a lot.
Why don’t you shut your stupid drug induced mouth,. Law enforcement officers are not stupid, they are like Santa Claus( they know when you’re sleeping. They know when you’ve been naughty or nice, so obey the law for goodness sake) stupid marijuana addicts ,shooting up marihuana in their eyeballs,that stuff can kill you. Plus it’s the leading cause of pedophilia,How else would a child molester get a child in his van. Knocks them out with a powerfully laced cookie with marijuana. this site is depraved and sickens me.
.
.
Did Poe’s law just come into play or is Pete bulkner really that stupid? I swear I can’t think of any benchmark to accurately decide. So Pete b., do you or don’t you have a measurable IQ?
My IQ is 110 thank you. Duncan at least I’m not a idiot who Grus their brain on marijuana, and go try their damnist to go be a coach in girl little league softball, just to help them wash in the shower, playing tickle fest like Jerry Sandusky. You’re a pervert. May god have no mercy on your sick mind.
pete b… if your IQ were 110 you might have the brains to see what an ass thou makest of thyself. Bigoty and stupidity go hand in hand…
until now, i didn’t think it was possible to cheat on an iq test.
110 is not very high. Genius is about 145, 100 is ‘average’, whatever that means. Smart people know they’re smart, and stupid people think they’re average. Pete is obviously proud of his (slightly above)average IQ. He thinks he is smart. NOT.
it took a while to figure out, but i think brother bulkner meant “Frys” when he typed “Grus”,not too bad for a guy who has been frying his brain since 1970. i’m guessing brother b. is an idea man and not all that detail oriented. http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/grus, thanks for the word brother b.
Perhaps it’s not so much that cops are too stupid to distinguish between plant varieties, it’s that they’re too lazy. They don’t want to be inconvenienced by being forced to think.
Even idiots are capable of operating a device that detects Monsanto’s gm-wheat products growing on a farm. Technologies such as lab on a chip, or LOC devices, can be manufactured and used to screen plant varieties to genetically determine which is hemp, and which is marijuana.
Besides the obvious visual differences in the two varieties of plants, the close spacing between hemp plants is intended to reduce the growth of thick, woody stocks that make the material more difficult to process into fibers. Bud growth is also reduced by close planting.
Hemp is described as “a durable, soft fibre used for manufacturing products such as paper, textiles, biodegradable plastics, health food and fuel. It requires few pesticides and no herbicides and is one of the fastest growing biomasses.â€
.
.
Recently I heard someone refer to law enforcement as the janitors of the judicial system because it’s their job to clean up the mess. Since when do people ask the janitor’s advice?
Wait, maybe this could be a new “reality” show, with Donald Trump having a contest to see which janitor has the best advice. Let’s call it “The Janitor’s Apprentice”!
Well, gee, since when has that ever stopped them? And if you don’t have enough information to form an opinion, you sure as hell don’t have enough information to vote against legalization and in support of hemp’s continued prohibition. The presumption should always be in favor of liberty and the burden of proof on those who would restrict it.
Crime Commission Asks Governor To Veto Medical Marijuana Bill
From one extreme to the other,,first they are too stupid to check hemp fields and now they know enough about medical marijuana to claim what is too much,,no mention of lowering the quantity to any amount they think appropriate,,just veto it.
and there ye have it… but those who do know about cannabis and it’s many faces are obviously not qualified to discuss it at policy level.
and what’s with LE? I thought “hey, we don’t make the laws…” was supposed to be their mantra? If so, then they need to stfu. Or… own up to it and take the flak inevitably headed their way.
Saw this a.m. that Bloomberg is funding gun law reform efforts in OR and WA. The man is a glutton for punishment. We have 3 sheriffs in OR that sent the “I won’t enforce unconstitutional laws” letters to DC. Oregon is gonna be interesting political territory for the next couple of years…
OT:
Study: Cannabis may prevent brain damage
I know that the couch already know about this study, but this is the article on Fox News. Things are changing.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2013/06/06/study-cannabis-may-prevent-brain-damage/?intcmp=features
How can we expect them to know the difference when they can’t even get the right addresses for their no-knock raids?
Slightly OT: I go hot and cold on Bill Maher, but I must agree with him that the pot issue should be seized by the Republicans – something I’ve long agrued and wrote about in my book. I think back to my conversations with Ethan et al. (including the drug policy division at the ACLU), when they told me I was delusional to suggest talking to the Republicans. Ya live long enough…
Medical marijuana w/cheese is being used to treat people’s pets for pain, and for extending their pets’ lives. Los Angeles veterinarian Doug Kramer, the “Vet Guru,” felt it was his duty to speak out:
http://tinyurl.com/kftdegl
good one, thanks.
Remember the brief CO brouhaha about dogs and pot a cuppla weeks ago? This little snip adds an important stat that previous articles (that I had seen) left out:
But what about the puppies? Don’t you care about the puppies?
mmm… puppies… very important to the Sun Dance they are, shunka wahanpi
common sense may be a growing phenomenon:
Right Side Round Table: Should marijuana be legalized? Hamilton County Grand Jury thinks so
Note the anti-pot speaker plays straight from the Book of Calvina. And sounds out of his/her league going up against Neill Franklin (LEAP) and Morgan Fox (MPP).
I just wrote to my congressman and my senator who sadly is opposed because he doesn’t know the issues (according to Huff Post that is). I’m pretty sure Tom Coburn only became a politician because he won top prize in the deer and horse fucking contest . . . that’s the most logical conclusion . . . that guy’s been a goddamn dictator for a long time . . . he’s been in Washington since the early 90’s.
Gov. Pete Shumlin of Vermont signed a bill today reducing marijuana infractions for less than 1 oz. of pot, and less than 5 grams of hash, to the status of traffic tickets.
http://tinyurl.com/kggygvs
Better than nothing, I suppose.
Kind of a little Thursday afternoon wild-eyed fantasy.
Want to put the cartels out of business?
Imagine the government itself manufactures all of what are now thought of as illicit drugs, doing so as a non-profit, and then makes them available so cheaply (or free, to really debunk the whole thing) to whomever wants to partake, so that there is no margin for the black market to even exist. (Legalize all, and undercut prices this way to truly eliminate the black market.)
Surely the government can overproduce and undersell the black market to the point there is no margin available to make it worthwhile.
Anyone could grow their own or whatever as well, still no profit in it.
The cartels walk. If it’s suddenly not worth billions anymore, they walk. It’s over.
Drug quality can be maintained so there is much less possibility of harm, and life goes on, and gets better for everyone. I could tolerate this.
Just a fun little thought for the afternoon.
Enjoy!
(I haven’t put in the energy to work up a financial model of this, but it might even be a lot cheaper than all of what is going on now anyway. Who knows? (Or maybe it’s just another crazy DonDig idea.))
(Really they don’t want to eliminate the black market, because there’s too much money in it for everyone, but I still enjoy the idea.)
The only way to remove any established market is to undersell the competition but that is nearly impossible when growers want the same profits or more for growing weed before it became legal added to prices that politicians add so much more tax than any other product on the market it will actually allow the illegal producers to raise their prices.
Although quality will carry some customers a lot more people live on budgets that would settle for the best deal.
tonight at 9 on Fox Business News:
War On… Terror, Business, Hate, Drugs, and Food.
I’m still waiting for someone to declare the war on war.
The only truly holy war is that against war itself.
I caught the last few minutes of it,,gonna go the FBN site and see if they have it streamed later,,last few minutes sounded good.
“The only argument against legalizing hemp is that law enforcement is too stupid to know the difference”
I think it should be a test for all LEOs, if they can’t distinguish the two they are immediately fired.
+It takes more than a glance,,they are the same plant except industrial hemp is a strain bred to produce low thc levels so they look exactly the same.
The plants LOOK the same…but they’re not GROWN the same. Hemp is crowded together (to encourage long, thin stalks), many plants to a foot of ground. Drug cannabis is planted on at least four foot centers. So you CAN tell a field of industrial hemp from a field of pot, just by looking. And that’s also why it would be impossible to conceal your drug cannabis in a hemp field.
.
.
Hemp seed crops would be grown identically to cannabis for enjoyment all the way up to when the grower releases the male pollen.
George Washington’s famous diary note is just as plausibly explained if he was growing a seed crop. Think it through DC, how would you maximize seed production? Unless I’m missing something separating the males from the females and giving the females adequate growing space would substantially increase total production of seed per stalk.
When grown for enjoyment one primary factor that motivates growers to avoid pollination is because it pretty much stops flower production as the plant turns its energy into forming the seed. Since each flower is a potential seed delaying pollination would make a substantial difference in the production of seeds.
None of the above justifies keeping hemp illegal but if we’re going to promote the use of hemp oil as fuel or part of a healthy diet it something of which we need to be aware. Of course not a single stalk could be produced without either using seed to start or massively increasing the labor involved by using clones. I can’t even get a mental image in my head of how much work it would take to produce and plant enough clones to start even a single acre. It works with cannabis for enjoyment because of the increased risk premium attached to the end product. But industrial hemp will quickly become a pure commodity so there’s not likely enough wiggle room to make clones a viable idea.
Now let’s mosey on down to San Diego and take a look at the U.S./Mexican border. Wow, look at that line of motor vehicles waiting to get inspected by Border Patrol agents. Well except for the 3 express lanes for people who have paid a fee to have their anal probe done in advance. They’re just driving on through.
Now let’s go down to the airport. Again we find long lines of people waiting to get cleared by security. But there is a bunch of people just sailing through, once again by paying a fee for having the inspection done in advance. My sister and her hubby are in that program as they travel all over the world constantly.
Why in the world couldn’t a similar program for growers of industrial hemp work?
It depends on what the hemp is used for as to how it is spaced,,long fibers= close together so plants contest for the light,,growing long straight stalks,,seeds = appx 4 ft apart to insure better bottom growth and pollination,,Fine cloths and paper = 2 ft apart and harvested in 4th month of growth,,before plants even sex.
“It takes more than a glance,,they are the same plant except industrial hemp is a strain bred to produce low thc levels so they look exactly the same.”
I’m no expert, not of marijuana or botany, but surely industrial hemp doesn’t actually resemble Grand Daddy Purple?
They have a 50/50 chance of lucking out and getting it right.
California Senate Approves Industrial Hemp Bill
by Phillip Smith, June 04, 2013
A bill that would set up provisions for growing industrial hemp in the Golden State passed the state Senate Tuesday on a unanimous vote. It now heads to the state Assembly.
Hemp History Week June 3-9, 2013
Marijuana Legalization:
This Graph About the War On Drugs Should Embarrass Every American
embarrassing-drug-graph.jpg
Federal Marijuana Lobby Day June 16, 17, 2013
Students for Sensible Drug Policy
Human Rights Groups Push for an End to the War on Drugs
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/06/06/big-pot/?hp&gwh=69BD73B183F21E086C16CA469E244CE9
Ding, ding, ding.
.
.
Well that reminds me of a classic from a couple of years ago. What does happen where bootleggers illegally sell drinking alcohol? In Georgia USA, there are still a few vestigial bootleggers of drinking alcohol. In that State modern day bootlegging leads to the scourge of stripper poles and the tragedy of illegal buffets:
Here’s a book a few of you might be interested in: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/wray-herbert/the-heart-and-mind-of-add_b_3397072.html
Wouldn’t it be impossible to grow smoke worthy outdoor bud within a half mile or more of a hemp field due to cross-pollination?
No problem, as long as you don’t mind some seeds in your bud. Don’t go planting those seeds, though, the plants will revert to hemp after just a few generations. Plus, while pot is wind pollenated, it’s pollen grains are on the large side and don’t fly far. 1/2 mile should be sufficient separation, 1 Mi. if you’re paranoid. During the “Swiss Experiment”, there industrial hemp fields just down the road from drug cannabis operations, and those folks worked out the separations in real fields (there were some farms who were too close, and did experience problems).
Dark,,there is an article in a hemp growers magazine from the times before it was banned,,I have searched and can’t find it now but it reported that hemp pollen is round(bad aerodynamics)and sticky,,if a cannabis pollen travels more than a few yards it is because it hitched a ride on something else,,cannabis depends on the wind rubbing the limbs together enough to dislodge the pollen and carry it a few yards,,that is why seed production hemp is planted 4 feet apart,,to insure pollination. And insects don’t assist cannabis except by accident,,the female flowers do not produce nectar.
Thanks for clearing that up for me dc. I was very curious how it would work.
I guess it would sell well in Texas as I have never seen a bag that was not mostly tree stumps and seeds!
PS:think about it,,why would a low thc cannabis plant always be the dominate genes that would “take over” a high thc strain? It is just as possible that a low thc strain crossed with a marijuana strain could start producing thc again.
.
.
There’s also the fact that most industrial applications use the fibers from plants that never flowered. When flowering starts the plant fibers stop growing so there’s very little if any reason to let the plants keep growing if you’re farming for fiber.
Duncan,,my plants increase in height by 1/3 more after flowering starts and in the 4th week of flowering they really climb.
In the Autumn 2011 issue of Mendocino County’s New Settler Interview, Dr. William Courtney, a cannabis physician and researcher talks about an article titled
Chemotype Development and Accumulation
Coutney says, “The feds developed this curve so they knew when to ANALYZE HEMP FIELDS TO FIND OUT IF IN FACT THEY WERE HEMP OR MARIJUANA, and they wanted to know BEFORE IT FLOWERED. So they developed a methodology that is useful to us because we can then determine the genetics of a plant before it goes to flower so we can easily divert it into a clone start if is something spectacular.
FYI: In the last part he’s referring to the search for CBD-rich plants in varying THC:CBD ratios.
Those unfamiliar with the work of Dr. Courtney (who made a 2012 run for Congress) need to check out his website.
Dr. Courtney’s preferred method is non-psychoactive raw cannabis at 600 milligrams of medicine compared to the current 10 milligrams used for THC combustion. Apparently, the juicing of raw cannabis is the most medicinal use of cannabis.
I know eating whole unburned marijuana has to be healthier than vaping or smoking,,there are some chemical compounds that wont be extracted by heat or are destroyed by it.
Now I gotta start juicing my trim leafs while they are fresh,,ain’t you basturds ever gonna quit finding more ways to use this stuff,,my grow cabinet is being stress tested now.
Doug Fine in the WaPo:
Five myths about legalizing marijuana
-snip-
I live in a conservative valley in New Mexico. Yet as a woman in line at the post office recently told me: “It’s pills that killed my cousin. Fightin’ pot just keeps those dang cartels in business.”
I just read that one. Kleiman linked to it, as an example of “the reluctance of some enthusiastic anti-prohibitionists to admit that commercial availability and aggressive marketing will inevitably translate into higher rates of abuse.”
In his similarly-themed previous post, Prof. Chicken Little reeks of intellectual dishonesty, particularly in the comment section excerpted below:
dino says:
June 7, 2013 at 1:39 pm
Unless the “money-hungry corporate marketers†as you call them start gangland-style executing large swaths of people, to threaten, scare and dilute the market share and influence of their competitors, it will never be worse.
Mark Kleiman says:
June 7, 2013 at 2:54 pm
Take a look at the death tolls from alcohol and tobacco and think about whether you really mean that.
Holy false equivalence, Batman! On both posts, I asked him to show us the bodies.
It’s times like this I’m really glad Mark Kleiman has a blog.
He’s over the deleting comments as usual:
I noticed that!
Comment deleted: Please criticize the ideas put forward rather than demonizing the writer.
Thanks for re-posting the original comment. I thought J. made some excellent points in critique of the ideas put forward, though I’m not surprised that the comparison to McNamara got under the thin skins of the elite overlords at the RBC.
And I just loved Pete’s response to my comment there, as well as Brett’s response to yours!
I dropped my $.03 in and copied my comment in case it gets deleted also.
I read and replied to your fine comment over there, Allan. I saved my reply too, just in case, but it looks like they’re going to let them stand, as Keith Humphreys has replied to yours already and I’m pretty sure he’s the one who nuked J.m.g.’s comment.
Funniest line on that thread:
Mark would be decidedly no fun to share a joint with. “Admit it! Why won’t you admit this is harmful!†“Look, I already said it was killer, bro.â€
some outstanding commenting goin’ on… props to all!
Allan, you da man!!!
Keith Humphreys challenged you to a serious conversation, and you BROUGHT IT!
IF he responds, it should be interesting…
Wow that’s funny! I made a post on an earlier thread claiming prohibs usually equate use with inevitable abuse. I was mostly generalizing from my own encounters with prohibs, but never in my wildest dreams did i think Kleiman would stoop that low. *sacrasm*
Regarding his argument on alcohol and tobacco; that is a rehashed version of “do we really want to add another drug to society”, ignoring that it’s already here. Lastly, it also ignores the question on how exactly would legalization would be more of a crapshoot than the status-quo?
The crack dealers were simply Ford’s constituents, and as he would of any other of his “normal” constituents, Ford kindly considered them worthy of a visit. Then, turning out to be real gangsters, they must have threatened to shoot him unless he allowed himself to be filmed while smoking crack and calling Pierre Trudeau a faggot. The great guy he is, he possibly thought that reporting it would only bring unwarranted hassle for the poor innocent neighbors. The man clearly deserves an award for such good humanity.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/06/ford-video-home/
The always excellent Debra Saunders:
The dying drug war and its final victims
Alternet has a round up of a month’s worth of police brutality around the country, laying it firmly at the feet of the drug war:
http://www.alternet.org/police-brutality
“Decades of the drug war have warped the priorities of many police departments. The results can be tragic.”
someone should rescue this dog from the police.http://www.thenewstribune.com/2013/06/07/2630039/police-dogs-nose-for-pot-no-longer.html just imagine the fun you could have detecting drugs around the neighborhood.
I know many will extol the superiority of seedless over seeded marijuana but there is one scenario nobody is talking about,,what if farmers produced hemp that was grown from quality seeds in a seed crop/marijuana pattern and harvested it when it was ripe,,then the farmer gets to sell the seeds to the food/oil companies,the vegetation to the people and although the fibers are too coarse for fine cloths or paper they still make burlap,,which happens to be one of the longest lasting toughest bagging materials made,,you could reuse one of those things a dozen times. A crop that a farmer can sell to three different markets is a gold mine.
I see a marijuana market in the future where you won’t even see a bud,,you will buy factory rolls or pipe blend that will have the thc/cbd levels on the label and perhaps a genetic brand name,,this is not tomorrow but down the road,,the only people that will have buds will be people that grow their own.
Cops have no more business telling lawmakers how to set policy than construction workers have telling engineers how to design bridges.
Then again, if the engineers abrogate their responsibility and rely on laborers to design the bridges, the bridges are going to be expensive and prone to collapsing, requiring that lots of construction workers be paid to rebuild them.