… if you’re a pharmaceutical company.
It was, of course, fascinating (although unsurprising) how fast Marinol was able to get moved from Schedule 1 to Schedule 3. Marinol is, after all, synthetic THC (or dronabinol) and marketed to function the same as marijuana (although its limitations can be quite severe compared to whole plant cannabis).
Marinol has, interestingly, even marketed itself as “legal marijuana.”
Well now the DEA is concerned that some companies who want to sell “legal marijuana” might have a hard time doing it, so they’ve published a notice of proposed rulemaking that would allow them to open up the definition of Marinol in Schedule 3 to include “Any drug product in hard or soft gelatin capsule form containing natural dronabinol (derived from the cannabis plant) or synthetic dronabinol (produced from synthetic materials).”
After all, they want companies to be able to market alternative versions and generic versions of Marinol…. just so long as it isn’t actually cannabis.
(ii) Any drug product in hard or soft gelatin capsule form containing natural dronabinol (derived from the cannabis
plant) or synthetic dronabinol (produced from synthetic materials) in
sesame oil, for which an abbreviated new drug application (ANDA) has been approved by the FDA.
Once again you have the DEA and the FDA working together to make sure that the pharmaceutical companies are taken care of without having to worry about trivialities like proving “accepted medical use.”
When drug products that reference Marinol® receive FDA approval, they will have a currently accepted medical use in the United States.
Actual cannabis, on the other hand, is claimed by the DEA to not have a currently accepted medical use in the United States, despite reams of evidence.
You can comment on the proposed rule making by January 3. Not sure what good it’ll do. Not even sure what comment I’d make… “Yes, please expand the definition because that might eventually lead to…” or “No, don’t let the other drug companies in until cannabis itself gets invited…” Not that the DEA is going to be interested in what I have to say.
Shaleen,
I may be wrong but wouldn’t naturally derived dronabinol be what most people call “hash?” – just wondering…
…Absolute hypocrasy..
No you can’t have a ‘NATURAL’ drug , but here we have a capsule containing sythetic cannabis or a derivitive from the whole plant.
So what is it in the plant dont they want us to have?
Or nice to know they have cornered the market on nature and now their ‘Brand’ is the only thing accepted .
How much money is keeping cannabis from more intensely researched now that we KNOW it as MEDICAL benefit?
And exactly who / where does this money come from?
Whats next, sythetic alcohol? As in beer?
When are people going to realise this law and this country is run by greed, lies ,corruption.
It is corrupt in differnt ways.
Corrupt in the sense that this ‘system’ of laws no longer function FOR the people, it fuctions in spite of the people. A system such as this is no longer useful to the people must be reformed. The recent economic melt down is a enormous example of how the ‘system’ is flawed and only serves only those at the top.
http://www.ktbs.com/news/25657078/detail.html
Houston KTBS-
The drug epidemic sent disproportionate numbers of black men to prison, and crushed the job opportunities for those who served their time. Women don’t want to marry men who can’t provide for their families, and welfare laws created a financial incentive for poor mothers to stay single.
We have been given a system that destroys the very fabric of our society…The United States of America…our home…our personal lives. Some would say society has become decedant…it hasnt…it has been lied to . Nice to know lying to the public is law now and required.
The story above is just a small bit of the effects of this corrupted system. Banker bailouts and an economic storm is just another. The last 40 years of drug arrests and subseqent ruined family structure is definitly one that is showing the effects..
So how do we get these politicans and others on down the line off thier steady addiction to money and power …? Just so we can live as people…not fearing the very people who are supposed to be serving us.
The way things are going, sheer economics of living in a de facto economic collapse will undo greedy Big Pharma…if only because no one will be able to buy their high-priced crap.
Already, in some circles, you are seeing quiet suggestions to engage in rooftop ‘victory gardening’ in urban areas…and not for weed, but basics like food staples. As things get worse and it becomes obvious that government cannot meet the needs of the citizens, practical self-sufficiency will in turn lead to questioning the need for most government ‘assistance’ (interference) in most citizen’s lives.
That will in turn lead to people asking why they should buy some barely effective, high-priced pill when they can grow their own herbal pharmacy. Something that government and its’ Big Pharma symbiont don’t want…not at all.
The marijuana plant itself is not psychoactive and the THC is located in the resin spheres and not anywhere else. The notion that the pharms have concocted a pill that has THC in it is suspect since they reference outmoded and ill-conceived growing techniques. It is only in MARIJUANA OPTICS that one finds the first mention of marijuana or cannabis parthenocarpy in any literature; this is odd since “seedless” marijuana has been around for thousands of years. CONCLUSION? There are a lot of self-professed experts running their jibs who don’t have any smoke in their lungs or dirt under their fingernails. What they have is a card index file with every single piece of marijuana BS carefully memorized so they can blurt it out in various blogs and other places as a form of deception instigated by the narcs and their fellow travelers.
I ran a little test of my own last year. I got ahold of a couple Marinol caps and went 60 days w/o plant vaporization, to achieve a cleaner base line.
When I had another PTSD episode, I used the Marinol. Interestingly enough, it made NO difference. Yet, when treated with plant vaporization, the following episode immediately came under control.
I would wonder how they’d answer that situation? Their “boogey” pill didn’t work but the plant did. Oh, the cap got me high enough that I wouldn’t leave the house, which my use of vaporization doesn’t cause.
Opening MMJ to big pharma and closing it off to us is what they want. They really want a patentable whole Cannabis extraction that they can point to; then they come after the whole MMJ cottage industry.
The current model that has this valuable and effective medicine currently (at least) under (the partial) control of the people who need it is uacceptable to both the government and business.
I am still wondering how a schedule 1 drug,in any form is so accepted so easily and skipped over by the ONDCP/DEA and there is no one we can complain too or seek relief from.
The ONDCP is protected by/from the DOJ since they work for them so we can’t go to the AG and complain.
Is their anyone above them that we can actually depend on to at least address this situation?
This is insane and it certainly will not work.The proof is there that marijuana it’s self has tons of medicinal value especially in the plant and buds.THC tabs have been around since the late 60’s and still are.For the last 10 years marijuana has been the number one cash crop for the United States let alone individual states.There’s no reason that growing and preciessing cannot be done by coop farmers much like they do with just about every other vegetable,plant etc..It can be monitored to make sure no pesticides or other harmful growth inhancers are being used.it will be major comoany’s that will market it much as tobaco products are.You want to rid the country of deficit within 2 years,here’s the way not to mention all of the states that are foundering in massive debts as well.I t will be controlled like alcahol and tobaco is,sold the exact same way.Premium brands cost more.In any event everyone benefits from it this way,it’s safe and all would be very well
Steve Hash is the oils and I guess you could call it sap of a marijuana plant it’s made simply by pressing the plant. Marinol is made in a laboratory and from what I’ve heard doesn’t work anywhere as well as the real thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinol#Dronabinol
I think states who pass marijuana laws should threaten to secede from the federal govt if their state laws are infringed upon.
pretty much give the fed, the middle finger and do what they want lol. I think it would be a grand idea.
A long but interesting read. Get a cup of tea.
http://coto2.wordpress.com/2010/10/25/prop-19-monsanto-and-gmo-terminator-cannabis/
One aspect I see as a barrier is the concept of “smoking.” The term itself will raise the ire of many people. We’ve been indoctrinated that “smoking is bad.” Just the art of “smoking.” I’ve found that when I tell people I “vaporize,” and explain it to them, the smoking argument goes down the “America’s Best” recovery system. They don’t or haven’t formulated an argument against “vaping” yet. Yet, the word “smoke or smoking” stands out like a truly sore thumb. Guess I’m a born-again “vaper” now. LOL And with my little sleuth portable unit, I’m not stuck at home. Tastes better, feels better and no seed holes in my shirts any more.
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ClayGooding said:
I am still wondering how a schedule 1 drug,in any form is so accepted so easily and skipped over by the ONDCP/DEA and there is no one we can complain too or seek relief from.
The ONDCP is protected by/from the DOJ since they work for them so we can’t go to the AG and complain.
Is their anyone above them that we can actually depend on to at least address this situation?
My answer:
Yes, that person is the President of the United States.
A twelve pack and a quarter oz will be more better for that one pin3hot.
ARRRRGHHH!! Infuriating. Welcome to the great American lie. Corporations have all the rights. We the people have none.
Proof positive yet again that cannabis is not a problem for Uncle Sam — the problem is his puppet masters and the (mostly) unnecessary synthetic markets that will be all but annihilated by legal cannabis and hemp.
Prohibition is nothing more than a corporate war against American citizens and good old-fashioned common sense.
Enough is enough.
WE MUST FREE THE WEED!
I read it Clay. it’s bunk.
That’s exactly what we should do. If the federal government won’t let us grow the herb and they infringe upon the rights of the states then hell yeah. But we here in Florida have a much bigger problem, Oxycodone: the crack of the 2000’s. I can go to any of the quack doctors down here, bitch about pain in my back and boom I would have enough pain medicine for an entire small country… and I’m just one person just imagine what a person who doctor shops can do. Yet if I am caught with just a small amount of pot I can kiss my DL good bye and I’ll be on probation (up to 20 grams is a misdameanor 21 and up is a felony. Rational? Don’t ask) If I screw-up I can be sent to prison. Growing it forget it unless you are dialed in with the police you will go to prison. The police have two grow houses right across the street from where I am now. You think they want Marijuana legal?
You know it’s sad that the number 1 money maker in Florida is not it’s sandy white beaches or Disney land, no, it’s locking fellow humans up in cages. They have a bill board on 1-75 south that says ‘Every new visitor is another job’ and it shows a sandy beach and a sunset. What they needed to take a picture of is the inside of a prison cell and a prison guard with that same line. Where do you think Oxy Rush gets his stuff? Why do you think he’s so fat and angry? Why do you think he lives in Florida? He’s opiated out of his mind and doesn’t know what he talking about. We here in Florida should be ashamed of ourselves and anyone who works in the court/prison should take a real look inward.
I don’t give a damn what ANYONE says I’m living in a room where the previous owner died of cancer. She was given all kinds of pills but the only thing that truly helped was a couple of puffs of Marijuana. You guys in the Medical Marijuana states are lucky we here in Florida still live in Draconia!!! And to this Shane Smith of the Skiff.com out in Texas, screw you mother phucker!!! It’s @$$holes like you that need to be taken out behind the shed and shot. Wanna know why Mexico has descended into lawlessness? PEOPLE JUST LIKE YOU! Does anyone else see this but me? You don’t like marijuana fine don’t use it! But don’t write some bull$hit saying this and that when you don’t even know what it’s like to smoke weed. Phuck Shane Smith of the Skiff.com! This is Luke Starwalker007 from the Spliff.com saying Legalize IT!!!
I have one question I would like to ask: Does anyone really believe the US Federal Government cares about the drug violence in Mexico? I think they want it just like it is………………………………………………..sorry if my spelling is a little off I’m using an older computer.
Boycott the corrupted gray-market MedPot Industry.
Legalize personal use (all other uses will then be covered).
Then, and only then, will we even stand a chance against whatever Big Pharma has planned.
darkcycle-
Thanks for the rebuttals. I should have pointed out the spin, but I figured that would be obvious. I’m glad someone with more of a connection to the “indus” could make some counterclaims.
If push ever comes to shove the DEAth will reschedule cannabis to a schedule#2 using liquid extractions from FDA approved Pharmaceuticals. Keeping the big buck items illegal, Ganja, RxGanja and Hemp. The corporatists keep their Ganjawar and profits on misery.
Report from Sativex Conference July05, 07
LIES, PROPAGANDA & GW PHARMACEUTICALS
Expected outcome: 1) This project will create spin that will conclude that marijuana must be rescheduled for the nation to benefit from the product Sativex. 2) It will embrace and own the spin around Sativex before our opponents do 3) Finally, it will get across our message that Sativex is marijuana, and marijuana is medicine.”
Canada Approves Cannabis Spray 20 April 2005
Andrea Barthwell, Snake Oil Salesman
US Government Patents Medical Pot
July 3rd, 2008 By: Paul Armentano, NORML Deputy Director
There’s a Monopoly on Marijuana Growing & Research By Dave Stancliff
CN Source: Times-Standard August 09, 2009 USA
Ben,
You mean the same President of the United States that laughed at us right after getting into office? THAT President? Or, have you forgotten?
The Ganjawar scam of fast tracking Merde-inol happened in time to counter Prop 215 and the more and more overwhelming non federally funded research stating the medicinal properties of RxGanja. But even the scam of Merde-inol was a scam using Delta 9, the cannabinoid responsible for getting “high” without the remaining cannabinoids. Sabotage since the “high” was what most senior patients objected too. Worthless as medicine and the dosage is too small for having fun. But apparently the gov’s scientists can make some good shit if it wants too… If it were truly about what’s best for Americans what’s the point? We can grow some pretty good shit without them.
Bud Beats Merdeinol for Pain
The drug is so poorly bio-available it’s surprising that it got onto the market. There may well be some reason to believe that there are individuals in our government who are interested in getting Marinol on the market to diminish the pressure for marijuana smokers.”
The Counterculture Colonel
Dr. James S. Ketchum, a retired U.S. Army colonel, was into weapons of mass elation, not weapons of mass destruction. He oversaw a secret research program that tested an array of mind-bending drugs on American GIs, including an exceptionally potent form of synthetic marijuana. (Most of these drugs had no medical names, just numbers supplied by the Army.) “Paradoxical as it may seem,” Ketchum asserted, “one can use chemical weapons to spare lives, rather than extinguish them.”
joe knuc wrote: “The marijuana plant itself is not psychoactive and the THC is located in the resin spheres and not anywhere else.”
That is simply not true. There is THC in all parts of the cannabis plant, except the roots and seeds. The greatest concentration is in the trichomes or “resin spheres” as you call them.
I’ve wondered. Leaves have about 30% THC and are not technically smokable. But the buds containing the THC won’t get you high until they are dried. Or at least I’ve never tried green buds and remember being told it would make you sick. So it seems the DEA is manufacturing “marijuana” when they pick the buds and not even then, only after they have dried. Long after they haul them off. So the growers are innocent just having living plants. I assume THC shows up in live plants in which case is the “high” a process of the drying?
Marijuana/Weed is already in a sense Street-Ready becuase there is NO cutting/milling involved.They are an organization feeding on fears for funding.They make alot of marijuana arrests.And being a smoker yourself, you should realize its benignity.
this has only been a matter of when for quite some time: http://globaldrugpolicy.org/1/1/2.php
so everybody — please email ethan nadelmann and ask him why legalization of recreational marijuana use is the THIRD priority for the drug policy “alliance”
these fuckers play hardball and far too many among us still think we’re going to “win” by pecking away a little at a time
DdC: Green plant matter will get you high, but the process of drying causes precursor molecules to change into active THC, so dried it is much more potent. Many people make water hash with fresh green material because it makes a gooey er finished product as it still contains alot of water. THC itself cannot get you high until heated. This causes stable TCH to lose a carbon molecule and become active. This is why you must heat cannabis before ingesting orally. This process is called decarboxylation. This is also why dronabinol is not actually THC, but a stable precursor that is transformed into the active component in your liver. THC itself is also unstable and with heating or exposure to light it rapidly degrades. This is why it’s better to dry your plants in the dark at room temperature than out in the sun as was done for thousands of years in traditional cultures. Cool, huh?
Brian, relax, this is word for word the GW Pharmaceutical co. release on sativex from almost three years ago now. It’s old news, and that’s the line GW has been pushing and governments have been buying now for the same amount of time. HOWEVER, a clever monkey might read between the lines and realize that raw cannabis could slide under these guidelines as long as the delivery method didn’t involve smoking and dose titration could somehow be accurately managed. I don’t know, by maybe a pro-re-nostra dosing recommendation,maybe, hmmmm?
…blind stupidity.
It dont matter if they make syntec cannabis legal…The fact is…they cant stop people from using good ol natural plant..
…Of course they like the arrests and control..Thats why it will never be legal.
What a joke, marinol is supposed to be based on 100% THC and all the DEA talks about is the rising THC levels in cannabis…
I’d sure like to see a concerted effort of people here and elsewhere in the net-o-sphere to actually follow up not just with the DEA, but with their representatives in Congress. Surely the narrative “Congress Legalizes medical marijuana for Wall Street Only” has traction. People who hate mmj will still oppose it, but the 70-80% of Americans who support it will speak up too.
What will the tea party, moderates, or liberals make of the Feds continuing to punish states for giving citizens rights the Feds just gave Big Pharma? Who is pissed enough to write their Senators?
darkcycle — don’t relax. they have no intention of continuing to allow raw cannabis to be considered medicine.
the “old news” was merely one step in a process that has brought us to today when the DEA is changing the language concerning schedule iii. the train has had its light on for quite some time.
there is no way to control dosing using raw plant material — hence, raw cannabis cannot ever pass the test as “medicine”
An important fact to consider when discussing GW and Sativex®… Dr Ethan Russo, Montana doc that did the follow up on the CIND patients works for GW, as does (or did) our dear friend Andrea Barfwell.
I’m w/ brian… enough half-stepping (on ganja). The cannabis lie is huge and it is the cornerstone for the whole drug war. We knock it out of place and there goes the whole damn wall. When that wall collapses the whole WO(s)D super-military-incarceration-industrial-complex will be compromised.
The pot argument is easy, we just need to really hold our officials feet to the fire. LEAP needs to go after the ONDCP and Droop Dog (the anithesis of Snoop Dog) – seriously, they’re the org with the professional peers of the top prohibs and have the better ability to garner top media visibility.
And damn it I’m serious, I’m getting old, this whole mess is really getting old and for pauper’s wages I’ll work full time doing my thing. Civil disobedience? Heck I can chain and lock myself down to a door w/ the best of ’em. Cannabis Prohibition is totally indefensible, there is no logic to it, no fact or science to its origins and it’s results are disastrous. There is never reason to lose a debate on the subject.
And this new DEA rule change proposal… it’s hypocrisy, crass hypocrisy that is exactly what judge Young called cruel and capricious.
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Brian, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t take note and worry. Just that we’ve known this was coming for a long time now.
This is kinda tough for people who don’t work with medicines on a daily basis to really get, but dosing titration is the issue..whole cannabis, wether GWp’s product or the whole plant has a dosing range, an effective range where the dose relieves symptoms and doesn’t begin to create additional side effectcs. This range is subjective. Each person and condition will have slightly different dosing requirements.
If you have a standard for growing, a standard strain, that produces a known ratio of TCH/CBD, and a delivery system that had known efficiencies, you could concievably be in…..the relative rates of chemical delivery would be known….titration is largely subjective in pain relief anyway….
In short if they are gonna claim Cannabis as a whole plant is medicine, they may have to actually accept that cannabis is medicine regardless of who grew it and processed it.
I’m sure that a situation where cannabis was legal only if you had a prescription and you could only get it from GWp is what they are after, but that may not be what they end up with.
…and regardless of what they do or say, I and I will still partake.
amen to that… irie…
and it IS time for civil disobedience folks. Whether actions like Pete’s tackling of the DEA’s travelling Cirque de Boolshitta or Dr Bronner’s planting hemp seeds, we need more. I’d love to have a campout in front of the WH next summer! Wouldn’t that be worth $1500 a month just to have somebody do? I’d volunteer but volunteering is too expensive!
We hammer them as liars as hard as we can. We wave their own studies in their faces. We call them cowards when they refuse to publicly debate – like Modesto’s Linda Taylor (ez’s new friend!) who I have publicly offered to meet, in her turf, to debate but has refused the challenge.
Do you have local loudmouth anti-drugnuts? Challenge ’em or find someone active locally better qualified but of the same stripe to go for it. Now that I have short hair after 34 years of being a long-haired doke smoping hippie, I can put on a suit and look like a pretty straight guy (an illusion that disappears when I talk the subject). I tell my teen kids and their friends that now I’m an undercover hippie…
I’m real curious to see what the orgs will do. I see MPP is tagging a dozen states or so for measures… which is where I really agree w/ brian’s sentiments… how long will we fight w/ nail clippers? We’ve backed the Prohibs to the ropes and they’ve been stung, they know we can hit.
And lord knows we’re smarter than them… better looking too from what I can tell.
I am absolute on yes now. The synthetic of jwh 018 that is available most places now shows to look exactly like thc except a little part missing from the bottom so this leaves some wondering if it is that similar to the real thing is the synthetic as safe? and regardless of if it is or not, why isn’t the real thing marketed the same way?
Keep in mind those that are against i.e. alcohol, tobacco, and or marijuana does not have to partake in the use of any or all of these
Ya know, Allan.
I never made the connection til just now. LMAO That other pix doesn’t look anything like you. When I first went over there, I recognized Malcom K. but you’re pix threw me. Small world, huh? LOL Honest assessment, bro. Am I holding dem big footsies of her’s to the fire properly? I’ll draw the line when you start calling her my new girlfriend. LOL
Such a good giggle to end the day on, too!
Hey, you two up there. I agree that the topic of “smoking” is not in our favor. That’s why we need to educate the public about vaporizing. As far as titration, one inhalation at a time, wait, see if the pain or whatever is affected, one more inhalation til you reach goal. After all, how would one measure vapor? You can’t over do it, we all know that. Again, education to the masses. If we can’t talk them out of Prohibition, maybe we can educate them out of it, as we did with tobacco.
since the organized effort began to reduce cig smoking we’ve cut it in half. And that’s been what? 25 – 30 years… ah ain’t gonna wait that long!
@ez… lol. Y a know I thought about calling her your g’friend but I think I remember you have a woman already. Plus I didn’t want to incur the wrath of ez with such an insult… 😉 And yeah, it’s a small world ain’t it?
I need to go see what’s happening over on that link Chris provided…
enjoy the firefight with linda EZ!
but seriously, we need to abandon the medical approach and let the chips fall. with complete legalization everyone gets what they want — except the peckerheads on the other side of the claymores ;^)
darkcycle: i and i too
Plant cannabis contains a large number of cannabinoids (CBG,CBD, THC, CBN, and others), terpenes, terpenoids, and aromatic flavinoids. It is the percentage of these, by dry weight, which determines potency (intensity of effect). Medical efficacy and psycho-active effects are determined by the relative proportions(Cannabinoid/terpene profile) of all of these interacting. Marinol is one isolated piece of the puzzle. This is why it is not as useful for treating many of the conditions which benefit from the use of plant cannabis.
All dosing is a range. for instance, 500mg to 1000mg is a proper dosing range for APAP (Tylenol). This gives you a dosing range of 500mg, within which to seek the proper effective dose. For something like LSD where 100-200 MICRO gms there is a 100 milligram dosing range. This is important because being able to hit that range of dosing reliably is where it’s at. There is a built in fudge factor here that is part of the issue. For APAP, that fudge factor is huge compared to LSD. Now. do you think that each and every capsule of Tylenol is identical in dose? Reality is that individual doses, each purported to be 250mg, are not. They may range from a low somewhere around 200mg to a high around 300mg. If you included a fudge factor that large for LSD, some people would get nothing, some people would be talking to the aliens in their space ship for a whole day.
Turns out that the fudge factor for Marijuana (whole plant)is tremendous, and equally, dependant on the individuals requirements and prior exposure to the drug.
With a LD50 (lethal dose for 50 percent of individuals subjected to it) that presumably is so high it is not worth mentioning,that gives you a HUGE ballpark to play in to titrate the dose. So, when theyy tell you that accurate dosing is what they are after, it looks very different in practice than in writing. That’s all I’s sayin. If they reclassify Marijuana then they reclassify marijuana. They can’t mandate a manufacturer.
they aren’t reclassifying the plant — they are changing the definition of dronabinol under schedule iii. the criteria is that the natural stuff must be in a gelcap or spray form.
here is the pertinent language: “This proposed action expands the schedule III listing to include formulations having naturally-derived dronabinol and products encapsulated in hard gelatin capsules.”
they are not reclassifying the plant itself, which will remain schedule i.