Johann Hari nails it:
In the Western world today, there is a group of people who live in a haze of unreality, and are prone at any moment to break into paranoia, hallucinations, and screaming. If you try to get between them and their addiction, they will become angry and aggressive and lash out. They need our help. I am talking, of course, about the Drug Prohibitionists: the gaggle of politicians, bishops and journalists who still insist that the only way to deal with the very widespread drug use in our societies is for it to be criminalized, where it is untaxed, unregulated, controlled by armed criminal gangs, and horribly adulterated.
Hopefully, we can get these folks into rehab quick. They’re dangerous out on the streets.
abso-f’in-lutely… a perspective they need to be painted with publicly, over and over and over. The term “cognitive dissonance” fits but goes over many heads. “Prohibition junkies works.”
Right arm and farm out,now there would be some well spent tax dollars.building rehab centers for prohibs,where do we sign the petitions?
This article is totally awesome, an amazing summary of the madness in England. I Highly recommend reading the whole thing.
Just you watch. The passage of Prop 19 will have all the Prohibs yelling that they now suffer from PTSD! If they do, you know what works best for PTSD. LMAO
Arnie signed SB1449 today. This is what the NO on 19 people wanted. A sane solid solution.
Prop 19 is a badly written proposition that will add criminal penalities that don’t exist today. It’s garbage.
I would suggest they be classified among the chronically mentally ill: they have a view of reality that is unsupported by reality, they actively avoid the reality testing normal people engage in to check their assumptions, and there are strong delusional tendancies (seeing cartel activity in a stray burrito wrapper sounds alot like hearing aliens through the radio). My own preference would be to have them hospitalized and fixed up with a nice Haldol/Prolixin cocktail, then I’d like to observe them for a while (professionally, of course), while they struggle to gather enough manual dexterity to scratch an itch.
Oh and 19 is so bad that it bars use in front of children. That means the CPS can take your kids away for smoking a joint. While alcoholics are faceplant on their kitchen tables in front of kids.
As I said. 19 is garbage.
Those that rehab can’t get through to, just ship their butts off to where they’re accustomed, PRISON!
Yo, Firestarter: They can take ’em away now….find a salient objection.
Don’t pay attention to him and he will have to go sell his pot later.
When 19 passes,who is going to pay for all those dogs in CA to be retrained either to not react to marijuana or only react to more than 1 ounce?
Can you see trying to go through an immigration check following legalization?
Clay, they’ll still be able to look for people with parrots in their underwear, no worries. “No parrots in here sir! I’m just sooo glad to be here…”
@firestarter
No one else is going to do this? Alright. Hey, you’re against prop 19. We get it. I have no hate for you and your ignorance, but I feel there’s no other way to say this: you and your group are acting like rich spoiled little bitches by opposing legalization. And by legalization I don’t mean prop 19: this issue is black and white to anyone outside of your state. Either you legalize weed, or you don’t. The details such as that it’s now a $100 fine and you can already grow pounds of medical marijuana legally and sell it or whether you can or can’t legally smoke in front of minors are all irrelevant to the rest of the country, and it’s irrelevant to ending the prohibition. The proposal isn’t perfect, but it can be fixed later if it’s really that big a deal to you, but don’t mess it up for the rest of us.
You need some perspective on this issue. I live in Michigan. Finding great weed can be hard because it’s not here all of the time when you want it. Normally, you have to go through the whole “find someone who smokes, ask them to hook you up, get ripped off, get a slightly better (but still shady and annoying) supply, repeat, but still risking arrest every single time” thing you’ve forgotten about. Medical marijuana here is in its infancy. We have a couple of dispensaries and someone I know is planning to start their first legal grow. Someone else offered to buy weed at a dispensary for me at the low low price of $70/eighth (probably not even top shelf), but I turned them down.
Your state has stores everywhere and you can get grade A+ weed anytime with no hassle or fear of arrest. Looking at Colorado’s dispensaries where pounds of weed sit out in the open and cause zero problems is something that most people here don’t even know about and can’t even imagine. I’ve read reviews of our dispensaries in Michigan and people coming here from other states such as yours actually complain about the selection, quality and price of the goods. It’s mindblowing to think that we’ve reached the point where people can legitimately complain about buying weed in a store to anyone who hasn’t lived with dispensaries for years and years. Yet it’s an everyday thing for you, right? Just like picking up a fifth of liquor, except the people are so much nicer because you’re a patient.
For those that don’t have a recommendation, a $100 fine for anything related to weed under an ounce is all there’ll be. And you think that’s better than no fine for 99% of smoking? Have you forgotten what probation/fines/treatment cost in time and money for a simple weed arrest and what those are even like? It must be nice to live in that world.
And then here you are with a chance to once again break new ground for the rest of the country, and you don’t want to do it because you can’t read the law or don’t want to. Are you KIDDING me? I don’t know how to convince you that it doesn’t invalidate prop 215, because you’re biased to the point where it don’t matter anymore. It’s been said countless times, but either you were duped into believing this crap or have a vested interest in maintaining black market prices.
Seriously, bitching about the petty stuff like you’re doing just looks ridiculous to anyone elsewhere. Oh boo hoo, you can’t smoke weed in front of kids or you’ll get fined. While you complain about not being able to smoke in front of kids, people elsewhere have to deal with not doing anything drug related within a thousand feet of a school, lest they get additional fines. Or smoking anywhere within view of anyone who might call the cops on their unambiguously illegal activity. Few grows are legal elsewhere in the country, yet your group complains about being limited to a 25 square feet grow and everything that garden ever produces.
I’d love for my state to say “Hey, cali legalized weed in 2010 and the sky didn’t fall, let’s do it in 2012!” – but you like your current situation too much to give a shit about the rest of the country.
Nicely said.
“cognitive dissonanceâ€
great name for a new strain!
Well said, Chris.
Chris, well said.
I will give firestarter one thing, SB 1449 -is- also a good thing. But yet it’s not complete, just as prop 19 is not complete.
It’s not a case of either/or. Only prop 19 or only SB 1449 or only prop 215 or only or only or. There is no way one bill/law will address all aspects of Cannabis.
Just like there isn’t one law that addresses alcohol. There are rules regulating sales, criminal statutes regulating consumption, taxation regulations, production codes, even counties and municipalities regulate times and days and what can be sold etc etc.
Of course too much bloated bureaucracy isn’t a good thing but don’t vote NO on prop 19 because of it.
Its ok, we can help them, we have the cure…its called …Voting, talking to your neighbors, getting to know your local police and sheriff. Its called stepping out of the box, getting out of line…not putting up with it. Its called being AMERICAN! (err)
Wow you people don’t read. Yes MJ should be legal just like alcohol. Prop 19 needs to rewritten. It is broken and you won’t get what you want out of it. It’s that simple. Watch and learn.
Oh and actually the CPS can and does take away kids all the time from MJ using parents.
Wow you people are just dull.
also, id like to clarify that I was referring to any anti-prop 19 people in that comment, so if anything I said doesn’t apply to you then ignore it. I just don’t have a soapbox and seeing your post about prop 19 introducing a new fines (for medicinal users it doesn’t) set me off. Don’t expect the rest of the country to have any sympathy for you on that issue. It was an unnecessary appeasement to try and remove one possible argument from the opposition, and you’re messing things up by turning a gamble into a loss by using it against the proposal. If. It wasn’t there, some stupid group MIGHT have used it to say “if you pass this, children will be exposed to marijuana because all of their teachers will smoke it in front of them!” Their argument was reduced to complaining about possibly stoned people teaching/driving kids, as if that can’t happen now.
Yeah, some parents are going to get screwed by that part of the law if it passes because they were seen outside with their child while smoking weed. It will go to court and eventually the law will be changed. But yeah, I agree, little things like that are worth making millions of people with no kids and no medicial recommendation deal with arrest and $100 fines and a continued stigma, black market violence and prices, and stagnant drug policy across the country.
Chris, thx for the words, couldnt have said it better.
Your life is ruined if you get caght with so much as a seed where I live.
Clay,
Going through Immigration moves you out of State jurisdiction and into Federal jurisdiction. And nothing will change via the November election regarding that fact.
Prop 19 just keeps the status quo with regard to smoking in front of kids. It has absolutely no impact on the status quo in that regard. If someone who supports marijuana legalization but doesn’t like Prop 19 because it doesn’t REMOVE criminal penalties for using in front of children, then they are (excuse the name calling) fucking idiots.
I think Mr. Lee and his henchmen were geniuses for giving the local jurisdictions the right to opt out. Had they gone with statewide rules a couple of counties would file a suit and darn if they wouldn’t win this one. Whoever wrote this has some very keen insight.
In Arizona they are voting on Prop 203 to legalize medical cannabis. The writers of that one were also some sharp cookies for putting the no growing if the patient lives within 25 miles of a dispensary. Get this, it will force cities to open dispensaries because for some reason prohibitionists are queer for keeping people from growing. So they permit dispensaries to keep out the growers. ‘effin genius. Oh I figured this out when I read about what is going on at the Phoenix City Council. is already addressing the issue and figuring out where the dispensaries need to be to keep growers as far away from Phoenix as they possibly could be. I’m dead serious. Fucking genius no doubt.
AND… most of these legislative efforts provide what is needed most on the cannabis ussue – public exposure, increased public discussion and further education. The LEAPsters (brazen hussies all!) who swamped CA w/ a well timed and organized event have kicked it up a notch.
Oregon has Measure 74 which will create legal dispensaries… and now virtually every Oregon newspaper has editorialized that we cannabists need to give up this incremental medcan creep and just go for legalization.
Back OT… they can’t deny the science any longer, they have no defense for their generations of lies and the hiding of the ’74 VA medical study that found found the cannabis – cancer connection will take a big bite out of their overfed butts. US citizens may be getting fatter and dumber but they still hate being lied to by their gummint.
We just keep pushing cannabis truths and swinging those hammers at the WOD Wall… and guaranteed this wall will fall, probably as dramatically as many before.
AND… most of these legislative efforts provide what is needed most on the cannabis ussue – public exposure, increased public discussion and further education. The LEAPsters (brazen hussies all!) who swamped CA w/ a well timed and organized event have kicked it up a notch.
Oregon has Measure 74 which will create legal dispensaries… and now virtually every Oregon newspaper has editorialized that we cannabists need to give up this incremental medcan creep and just go for legalization.
Back OT… they can’t deny the science any longer, they have no defense for their generations of lies and the hiding of the ’74 VA medical study that found the cannabis – cancer connection will take a big bite out of their overfed butts. US citizens may be getting fatter and dumber but they still hate being lied to by their gummint.
We just keep pushing cannabis truths and swinging those hammers at the WOD Wall… and guaranteed this wall will fall, probably as dramatically as many before.
Chris, in a perfect world we could all do bong hits and eat cheetos anywhere the fuck we want. Needless to say this world isn’t perfect.
Sorry, the above comment was for firestarter.
ezryden:
That is exactly what I was talking about,the feds will be having to search every car that goes through because their dogs will be going schizo when someone drives through after toking or even having a small quantity with them.
And I was thinking more of the temporary ones they just set up at random spots,with their drug dogs.
And all those drug dogs the CA police have spent tons of tax dollars buying for drug searches,what good are they for marijuana busts when the key off on a roach in the ash tray or your pocket.
There’s always the parrots…
Decrim is a sham. We’ve been here before…remember 1979? Oh, alot of you don’t. We had decrim then too, it had nearly gone nation wide. Then Reagan happened. He decided that federal funds would be withheld from States with decrim. BANG! That fast, it was back to a life ending felony, overfuckingnight. The only State that didn’t cave outright was Alaska. And with the pipeline just completed, they didn’t need no stinkin’ highway funds.
Governor Musclebound is scamming you, and potheads are going for it again. Morons, dolts and idiots. Decrim is your graveyard. Better support 19, it’s our best hope.
And you people want to give cities the legal ability to send enforcement into your home and count your plants to make sure you are within permitted amount you paid for. Are you crazy? Why in the world would you settle for such a meager stupid law? Don’t you deserve better? Oh yeah I know…you’re sending the feds a message… The message you’re sending is that you’ll give up your rights for a toke. I can’t wait to see this board when prop 19 passes and everyone starts complaining that their city is doing the same thing Rancho Cordova and Yolo are doing. Charging you $600 a square foot for a permit (for those of you who can’t do math that’s $15k for your stupid 5×5 space). Good luck…wanna see you afford that.
Oh and Chris, do you know how well kids fair in foster homes?…because you want a sloppy law that won’t do anything about the federal jurisdiction, won’t let the people in jail now out, won’t increase availability. Just go get your med card and quit screwing up children’s lives while you wait for the courts to take their sweet time changing the law.
Okay, firestarter, if you seem to have the answers to the questions, but feel like being coy, then what is YOUR solution to the plan? If you cannot express it in less than 20 words and/or two sentences, then obviously you haven’t placed enough thought into your argument. I feel we’re all in this together, but this attitude you’re bringing is making you seem like a spoiled clown.
Hell, I fought in Iraq from March of 2003 until July when they shipped me home for my end of service. Guess which substance doesn’t make me a zombie? Guess what pills do (if you answered “anything from the VA”, then you are correct). I want us all to be left the fuck alone, but you acting high and mighty and refusing to offer a solution to the problem makes you sound like a three year-old who was told “no” by Mommy at the checkout counter.
LOL, wow I don’t think we’ve ever had one of those true “I want it all in one legislative package stoner” types on here before but it is refreshing. “Firestarter,” you are truly different for this blog. I think the appropriate phrase is “politics is the art of the possible.” Respond to my above comment first, then this one, then we’ll talk about how naive and child-like your comments are (if in fact you truly feel this way considering your internet name),
Firestarter, what happens when you smoke in the same room with children right now in California? The reality is prop 19 keeps the status quo in that regard, but improves and legalizes marijuana in every single other way from cultivation to possession.
Cities right now have the authority to arrest you for a single unauthorized plant but need probable cause to search which would be the SAME THING with prop 19, only there would be a LEGAL AMOUNT of plants one could cultivate, so I fail to see what you are saying about them coming in and counting. Moreover, Prop 19 doesn’t invalidate the medical marijuana statutes. If you have a medical marijuana card, these new restrictions WON’T apply to you. Voting in favor of prop 19 is a no-brainer. Let me put it another way. Prop 19 would be the best marijuana law in the world. It is the best thing that could ever happen to end prohibition, and people that oppose it are either prohibitionists or purists that don’t understand incrementalism and would have probably opposed medical marijuana out of merely the fact it didn’t legalize it for recreational adult use.
I urge you to reconsider your position, which is clearly the uninformed and ill-thought out one.
Cali has officially decriminalized cannabis:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jczeFXQ_qRHn2rY1hF6_TLaSmrXAD9IJ620O0?docId=D9IJ620O0
Ok, so let’s assume there will be a a $600 permit per square foot or whatever (which won’t happen, cities are only able to regulate commercial grows with prop 19)… how is that any worse than the current status quo of having the next couple years of your life in prison plus probation and fines? It doesn’t affect prop 215, so we’re only adding rights here.
And as for your “what about the children” argument, they already get taken away now for dumber shit. Bag of weed and a scale, maybe some old guns in a locked cabinet? What a dangerous home, get that kid out of there and into the arms of the state. Versus it being completely normal to have weed near a kid but just not to be using it in the same space (unless it’s medicinal), and no reason for a person to sell just to smoke for free.
Again, why is the proposition so hard to read? There’s just no way that the situation could be on the whole worse after passing this, any way you think about it. Abuses caused by intrusions that would never happen if having weed wasn’t probable cause to search you and your home would not go up, they would go down with passage of prop 19.
You can trot out arguments one by one, or just do it all at once. It doesn’t take much time to make my arguments.
“There’s always the parrots…”
Drug Parrots?
I said it on another board and I’ll say it here. There has never been a “Utopian Perfect” law passed by anyone. They all have to be “tweaked” over time, after the fact. How come people (Prohibitionists and the likes of Firestarter) suddenly require that our law be TOTALLY PERFECT? This is the whine I hear from Prohibitionists.
Prop 19 will go through a tweaking process just like every other bill has done. You want it perfect and you want it right now. Ain’t a-gonna happen. Never has and never will. Utopia doesn’t bloom from a single word.
We’ve got out state moving. If your’s isn’t, then it behoves you get get it going, just as we did. Let’s see YOUR “Utopian Perfect” law get accepted.
@ Firestarter “Can’t read, can’t do math and boring†one out of three might be good enough in the Major Leagues but not here.
In the mid 1800’s R.W. Emerson wrote. “There are two pairs of eyes in man; and it is requisite that the pair which are beneath should be closed when the pair that are above them perceive; and that when the pair above are closed, those which are beneath are opened. The lower eyes see only surfaces and effects, the upper eyes behold causes and the connection of things.â€
Folks, Firestarter here is the example of our challenge. Prohibs and dopers with the same limited capacity for perspective. Two extremes with the same disease, they cannot conceive a world where compromise is a win, not a failure. Where the “surface and effects†of the lower eye harmonize with the “causes and connection†of the upper eye.
The cannabis cause; where we gather to engage and connect. Where we discuss and debate in good fellowship with reason and truth as our guide. Where it’s not whether you win or lose, it’s how you play the game.
The prohibition cause; where they gather to engage and connect. Where they discuss and defend governmental power being wielded for control and advantage. Where winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.
Yup, Firestarter was right. Boring!
I’ve posted this before, but for those who have not read it here’s a pretty unbiased view of Prop. 19 written by the California Legislative Analyst’s Office:
Proposition 19: Changes California Law to Legalize Marijuana and Allow It to Be Regulated and Taxed. Initiative Statute.
Also, here’s the full text of Prop. 19 from the California Secretary of State’s Office:
Proposition 19 – Changes California Law to Legalize Marijuana and Allow It to Be Regulated and Taxed.
I encourage you to be an informed voter and actually read and understand what you are voting for.
Firestarter would like each and every adult caught with marijuana to be given a birthday party and a pony. Period. If he can’t have his fucking pony, then the rest of you all can bugger off.
David,
Have you noticed that most Prohibitionists are really bad at math? Must be a prerequisite for the mindset. Like DFA saying that a 5X5 plot will produce 240,000 joints. What DFA didn’t know was that NIDA has set the weight of one joint at 1 gm. Work it from there and see what ya get. Prohibitionists have always had a problem with “numbers.” LOL
If you think consuming cannabis in front of kids(Or alcohol. Hell even swallowing perscrips drugs in front of your kids)..if you think this is ok then you need a reality check. Prop 19 addresses this and the ‘Fucking idiots ‘out there dont like it. Give me the ablility to consume legally and I’ll keep the kids out of it. Its called being a good parent/parenting.
ezrydn,
Yup, tried math the other day. 240,000 one gram joints weighs .24 metric tons, or 8,466 ounces, times ?$ per gram…… 1 gram x 10 min = how high?
Yup…. Boring! NOT!
I’m not asking for Utopia. Being markedly sentient, none of the regulars here are.
What we do want, however, is an end to this Sword of Damoclese situation that cannabis prohibition represents to all cannabists, not just those in CA but in the rest of the Union. And if that upsets the apple cart of some growers and distributors that are feeling their (highly profitable) market niche threatened, a niche maintained by continued prohibition, well, TOUGH SHIT!
And given how rarely I use profanity here, that should give the measure of anger and disgust I have with those seeking to derail what may be the greatest chance to begin the dis-assembly of drug prohibition in my lifetime. Being in my 5th decade, I don’t feel like waiting any damn longer.
19 represents the beginning of the end of the DrugWar tyranny that has plagued our nation for far too long. Vastly more is at stake here than just the right to enjoy your medicine in peace; a gigantic, freedom-crushing Juggernaut called ‘DrugWar” was constructed and has been running loose, with horrific results, for the past 40 years. And it’s favorite fuel is cannabists.
19 represents an RPG blasting this Juggernaut’s tread-wheels to junk and crippling it as it’s never been before. “As California goes, so goes the country.” Passage of 19 will eventually be mirrored in other States, if only out of economic self-defense. So what if it’s not as ‘elegant’ a solution to the problem as we’d like to have; it has the most promise of beginning the end of cannabis prohibition nation-wide of anything that’s likely to come down the pike.
This isn’t about just CA; it’s much, much bigger.
Another observation about the know nothing potheads who are lobbying for continued second class citizen status. I agree that 25 square feet is too small. It would have been better to go with 32 square feet. 25 square feet is just not a common size for a hydroponic system.
OK, 18, 19, and 20 years of age shouldn’t vote because Prop 19 maintains the status quo for their age group. Instead of yes for 19 they should wait until 2012 and hope someone ponies up a couple of $million to get another Initiative on the ballot, which may or may not have better terms. So in 2012 when today’s age 19 and 20 voters are 21 and 22. Yeah that would be real smart for those age 20 to add an extra year as a second class citizen.
I’d have to be crazy to believe that pile of hysterical rhetoric you’re serving up. Only an idiot would believe that Prop 19 is going to overturn the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution. What a fucking bass ackward analysis. So tell me, are you such a moron that you actually believe that bull crap I quoted above? It’s simply amazing the bull crap that the know nothing potheads believe. You have to be really out of your mind to believe that we have enough support among voters to write our own ticket. We have at best 10% of the voters who are directly affected by the prohibition laws. There may be as much as 10% of the voters who believe in freedom and will support us regardless of not being directly affected. The really sad thing is you bungholes might just be responsible for the potheads once again snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. I’d really like to take you out back and thrash you to within an inch of your life for being such a senseless asshole.
In other voting today California voted down Proposition 19 by a fraction of one percent. We have here with us in the studio today Ms. Calvina Fay to comment on this day which could have been an historic day representing the rejection of the long failed war on some drugs. Ms. Fay, could you tell us what ypu think of today’s vote?” Why yes Mr. Stewart,it’s really plain to anyone who is sober that the voters of California have issued a resounding “No” to legalizing drugs and raising addiction rates to epidemic levels while causing carnage on our highways because all the forklift drivers got “stoned” and took their forklifts out for a drive on I-5″, Really I hope this sends a message that California is dedicated to the well being of its most helpless citizens, the children who are the very future of the human race and doesn’t want it’s elementary school teachers to be smoking dope at her desk while the children get high on her second hand fumes and after repeated exposure, lung cancer and finally death.
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